mtv lifer writing a Joss Whedon biography to come out in 2013. i watch a lot of television. a lot. and i talk about fandom and television in general lot. I agree with some of this, but I read the more in that line more like wanting to make time for her family (Ben now, and maybe kids later) in addition to her accomplishments, not that she wanted to give up one for the other.
I disagree that the “I want…
Based on Leslie’s love for Parks, children’s concerts and being the caring loving person she is, I think having children is an easy trait to believe in her. However, since Leslie’s dating life was always awful and fleeting, prioritizing the tangibles in her life (friends, waffles and work) made more sense for where her character was at that time. Now that she is married and has had an epiphany that wow, kids are something she can have and seeing first hand how fulfilled Jerry is with his has sparked a desire to have her own. I don’t think if she’d stayed single she may never have focused on it or felt that she was missing that in her life necessarily, but now that it’s within reach what’s so wrong with her deciding she’s ready and wants that in addition to her career? She’s advancing her career and there’s no reason she can’t add another layer to her happiness by having kids. I think it’s a very in character growth arc for Leslie.Funnily enough, I agree with both you and Amy. I don’t think it’s wildly out of character for Leslie to want kids. I think there might have been hints before (like that End of the World freakout moment), plus there have been no indications to the contrary, and she’s in her mid to late thirties and for maybe the first time (?) in the kind of lasting relationship where it would make sense to talk about having kids.
But I also definitely agree that the phrasing of “Accomplishments are great, but I want more than that” is more than a little unfortunate. I don’t know if it necessarily undermines her whole character, though I also agree that she has been all about accomplishments and wanting to be president up to this point (with a slight detour when she was willing to get herself fired for Ben). But Leslie is impulsive, so the line about accomplishments and the throwaway line “We’re always going to work” could have been said under the temporary influence of the Gergich breakfast and might not indicate a complete sea change. Nevertheless, even though I don’t see it as an irreversible change in the character, I still don’t think it was very well thought out by the writers in terms of the narrative the show usually has re: women and careers. In that sense, it’s somewhat comparable to Leslie calling Ann a “beautiful spinster”, IMO.
Above all, for me, Leslie and Ben having kids is of no interest, not because it doesn’t make any sense for them, but precisely because it makes so much sense. It is the expected narrative: marriage and then kids. If they weren’t thinking about kids, then what else would they be doing? That question, the what else, is far more interesting to me than being fed the easy narrative. I’m not a fan of spouting various and sundry writing “rules”, but in this case I think the following applies: rule of screenwriting—your first idea will probably be too obvious, so think again. The way I see it, this is where the show could mark itself once again as original and fresh, by not picking the easy route on where to go next. But it is, and that’s disappointing.
Agreed on most of this. Not to disparage anyone who has or wants kids— a group that includes most people I’m friends with, and my parents— it’s just frustrating to see yet another female character want kids. Wanting kids is fine, and I’m all for the continuation of the species, and please don’t take anything I’m saying as a slam on those people, but—
It would’ve been nice to see a childfree character. Someone who explicitly told the audience that she didn’t want kids, and then stuck by it. As someone who doesn’t want kids, I’d like to see more of that reflected on screen. And yes, I also get that there are loads of underrepresented groups missing from the media, but this doesn’t have to be an either/or thing.
Almost twenty percent of women in the US end up childless, either by choice or by circumstance. And yet, in my own media-heavy life, I can only think of two characters (Robin Scherbatsky and Samantha Jones) who purposefully chose not to have children and discuss it on-screen.
Leslie Knope wanting kids doesn’t seem out-of-character to me, necessarily, I think they left her open-ended enough that either decision would’ve worked for me. More than anything, I want to see the character ultimately be happy.
But I do wish her personal decision that’s brought her happiness could’ve lined up with my personal decision that’s also brought me happiness.
Reblogging for diaphenia and herbalsmoothie’s commentary, especially:
But I also definitely agree that the phrasing of “Accomplishments are great, but I want more than that” is more than a little unfortunate… I still don’t think it was very well thought out by the writers in terms of the narrative the show usually has re: women and careers. In that sense, it’s somewhat comparable to Leslie calling Ann a “beautiful spinster”, IMO.
Above all, for me, Leslie and Ben having kids is of no interest, not because it doesn’t make any sense for them, but precisely because it makes so much sense. It is the expected narrative: marriage and then kids. If they weren’t thinking about kids, then what else would they be doing? That question, the what else, is far more interesting to me than being fed the easy narrative. I’m not a fan of spouting various and sundry writing “rules”, but in this case I think the following applies: rule of screenwriting—your first idea will probably be too obvious, so think again. The way I see it, this is where the show could mark itself once again as original and fresh, by not picking the easy route on where to go next. But it is, and that’s disappointing.
diaphenia said: Even if I give that to you, though, there were six other points I mentioned. The anon thing I didn’t realize at first, but I did know I’d never seen that sn before. She still was campaigning for something that wouldn’t work but would be cruel
I wrote the post at 1am and specifically addressed the fact that I was speaking to the criticism of the OP being anonymous. once I’m done with my ten million appointments today, I will respond to your six other points.
After all, it is canon that Sweetums makes condoms…
(maybe in old-people candy flavors? Wintergreen, praline…let’s see, what other candy flavors do old people like? Chocolate-covered cherry, which has the additional advantage of sounding dirty)
Ethel should be the spokesperson for Sweetums Condom’s new “Hard Candy” line.
diaphenia replied to your post: Leslie and Ben (And Us!)
BAWLING
i know bb. i know. me too.
iloveyouandilikeyou replied to your post: Leslie and Ben (And Us!)
When I saw Toms ID, I thought the same thing. And the reveal hit me with the same emotion and depth of Citizen Knope they do it for their friends because they love them and they help each other.
Exactly. It’s been a show where they all support each other and show up for each other. I particularly love it in all the small moments like in ”Indianapolis,” when Leslie tells Ben to go to the Snakehole Lounge with everyone after he refuses Tom’s invitation. And then he’s surprised at the small things — Donna buying him a Miller Lite, saying “that’s your drink, right?”, the easiness of his conversations with Andy (who is oddly his only confidant) and talking to Tom and genuinely wanting him to feel better about his dreams, which smell horrible. And perhaps it was Ben’s first reaction as a Pawneean when he sprays Tom’s perfume into Dennis Feinstein’s car in a show of support and revenge for Tom.
dashakay replied to your post: Leslie and Ben (And Us!)
Thats what I love so much about Parks and Rec. Its chock full of those little details that harken back to other moments, other episodes. Emotional continuity!
I think you can look at every character at the beginning of the series and right now and see their emotional and narrative arc and it MAKES SENSE. they’ve all grown — even in smaller ways like Jerry and Donna — and you can easily trace it through big and small moments.
there is SO MUCH academic work on Joss Whedon’s work and I honestly feel like Parks and Rec offers up an incredible wealth of source material — especially for a sitcom — to do the same.
reluctantbadger replied to your post: 5 in Buffy, 7, and can I get away with asking #8 in Teen Wolf? LOL.
Bless you for THE WALL comment. BLESS. YOU.
HA! Thanks!
I am never above being all “hey kids, get off my lawn” which has translated into a “hey kids, get the fuck over yourselves and stop playing the fan who cried butthurt.” Which is what I feel like a lot of the FOURTH WALL wank is these days. Some fans complain that THE PEOPLE WHO CREATE THE SHOW AND LOVE IT AS MUCH AS YOU DO are making an effort to connect with them.
I’d get being upset if there was a sense of mockery or manipulation going on, but I don’t feel that’s where it’s coming from. And missteps are made in all producer/fan relationships, so I give both sides a bit of leeway in action and emotional reaction because it really is some confusing waters to navigate. But to get pissy about “the fourth wall” as a general rule — that feels like knee-jerk wanking rather than legitimate concern.
diaphenia replied to your post: 5 in Buffy, 7, and can I get away with asking #8 in Teen Wolf? LOL.
Oh ick, Xanders dating the useless one? Ick.
stars-inthe-sky replied to your post: 5 in Buffy, 7, and can I get away with asking #8 in Teen Wolf? LOL.
Ew, ugh, Xander/Dawn. I dont HATE Dawn the way many people seem to, but that was a squicky pairing
I don’t follow the comics so I don’t know the intricacies, but yeah. According to the Buffy wiki: “When Dawn was undergoing a series of mystical transformations, Xander was Dawn’s only real confidante with Willow’s absence and Buffy’s duties as head Slayer. Throughout the transformations, he was there to comfort her and allay her insecurities. By the time she was a human again, and despite the possibility of romantic interest from Buffy, Xander and Dawn began seeing each other. After the end of magic and the relocation of the Scoobies to San Francisco, Dawn and Xander moved into an apartment together.”
I’m sure there was good development, but the pairing squicks me big time.
reluctantbadger replied to your post: 5 in Buffy, 7, and can I get away with asking #8 in Teen Wolf? LOL.
Bless you for THE WALL comment. BLESS. YOU.
HA! Thanks!
I am never above being all “hey kids, get off my lawn” which has translated into a “hey kids, get the fuck over yourselves and stop playing the fan who cried butthurt.” Which is what I feel like a lot of the FOURTH WALL wank is these days. Some fans complain that THE PEOPLE WHO CREATE THE SHOW AND LOVE IT AS MUCH AS YOU DO are making an effort to connect with them.
I’d get being upset if there was a sense of mockery or manipulation going on, but I don’t feel that’s where it’s coming from. And missteps are made in all producer/fan relationships, so I give both sides a bit of leeway in action and emotional reaction because it really is some confusing waters to navigate. But to get pissy about “the fourth wall” as a general rule — that feels like knee-jerk wanking rather than legitimate concern.
diaphenia replied to your post: 5 in Buffy, 7, and can I get away with asking #8 in Teen Wolf? LOL.
Oh ick, Xanders dating the useless one? Ick.
stars-inthe-sky replied to your post: 5 in Buffy, 7, and can I get away with asking #8 in Teen Wolf? LOL.
Ew, ugh, Xander/Dawn. I dont HATE Dawn the way many people seem to, but that was a squicky pairing
I don’t follow the comics so I don’t know the intricacies, but yeah. According to the Buffy wiki: “When Dawn was undergoing a series of mystical transformations, Xander was Dawn’s only real confidante with Willow’s absence and Buffy’s duties as head Slayer. Throughout the transformations, he was there to comfort her and allay her insecurities. By the time she was a human again, and despite the possibility of romantic interest from Buffy, Xander and Dawn began seeing each other. After the end of magic and the relocation of the Scoobies to San Francisco, Dawn and Xander moved into an apartment together.”
I’m sure there was good development, but the pairing squicks me big time.
stars-inthe-sky replied to your post: They never did tell us who the new slayer was in S6 did they? After Buffy died that time there shouldve been another one. Also with you on Dawn. Scrappy Doo
Faith was also in prison (via Angel) at that point, which is why they put the Buffybot back on duty.
yep! i’m pretty sure that there were some interviews that addressed that fact.
Interestingly, the narration has always been “into every generation, a Slayer is born” and I felt that the movie made it seem that it was truly a generational thing. That one Slayer wasn’t called as soon as one died, that the new Slayer would come with a new generation. Which is probably just subjective and me looking way into it ;)
Anyway, I was reading about this part of Buffy’s speech in “Chosen” that was cut out:
It’s true none of you has the power Faith and I have. I think both of us would have to die for a new Slayer to be called, and we can’t even be sure that girl is in this room. That’s the rule.
And then, of course, Willow did her spell and the whole Slayer line exploded. (I always worried about the poor Potentials around the world that were suddenly surged with all this power that they didn’t understand.)
If/when I get to talk to Joss again, I think I’ll ask him about the Slayer line as there doesn’t seem to be any definitive answer.
diaphenia replied to your post: They never did tell us who the new slayer was in…
DAWN WAS THE WORST TRUE FACT
auntiesuze replied to your post: Buffy didnt die to avoid the pain of losing Dawn,…
I sort of understand why the writers went that way, but I hated Dawn from day 1 and would have been TOTALLY FINE if she had to die. She was annoying and pretty much useless. Bleh.
DAWN IS ALWAYS AND FOREVER THE WORST. I’m sorry, Dawn. You are not an awesome lady and do not get to be celebrated on Galentine’s Day.
okay! here’s what you have to do:
1. hold each end between your thumb and forefinger and roll them back and forth a few times. it’ll help them curve to your lashline better.
2. put them up to your eye and trim for length. no sad cow drooping on the end!
3. put glue on them, then put them down and check back a couple of minutes later. wait until the glue is tacky, don’t put them on w/wet glue.
4. start with your inner lid, then press along until you get to the end. if it doesn’t look or feel right, take ‘em off and do them again. if it’s more than 2-3 tries, you might need to do the glue step again.
5. once you’re set with positioning, try not to blink. i can’t remember if you’re supposed to look up or keep them closed.
6. Opt: once they’re dried, gently brush mascara UP along your natural lashes and the fake ones.
yay fake lashes! have fun!
